As far back as I can remember there has always been a strong but somewhat unclear emphasis on the book of Proverbs for Christians. Like some of you may already know, the Proverbs have always been considered by Jews as part of both the Law and the Prophets and I am sure were read repeatedly in synagogues throughout the time leading up to Jesus’ public ministry. Yet after the Lord came, walked the earth and then sent His disciples out to go preach the Gospel to the nations of the world, we don’t really see much mention of the Proverbs with respect to daily living in any of their teachings?
Yes, there are only a few mentions from the book of Proverbs in the NT, like about 8, and of those only 1 or maybe 2 might be viewed as some kind of a how-to statement. And the most likely of those quotes comes from Paul’s letter to the Romans, which should cause us to question its how-to usage! LOL.
As a kid who was raised in a main-stream denomination, I knew the book of Proverbs was found in the Bible — and I can remember having heard mentions of certain proverbs during sermons or Bible classes. I think may have even skimmed through that book on occasion (like when I was bored while at Church). My early memories include statements about the importance of knowledge and wisdom; listening to my parents; staying away from sinners, those evil men who lie in wait; and keeping clear of wicked or strange women — the adulteress — whose “feet go down to death” and whose “steps take hold on hell.” Honestly, I wasn’t entirely sure what kind of a woman this referred to, as my imagination conjured up some rather vivid pictures of a woman who had some kind of an inner doorway that led down into the burning pit of hell.
Now, when I attended Bible College back in the mid-70s, I was inundated with Proverbs, as they were quoted on a regular basis. Our evangelistic motto was even based upon a Proverb: The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise. Proverbs 11:30 (KJV)
One of my classes covered the book of Proverbs. And I was shown the logic of making the Proverbs part of my daily routine — after all, 31 chapters strangely coincides with the number of days in a month. I mean, might not God have been telling us something? After all, listen to opening statement of the whole book:
The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel; To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding; To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity; To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion. Proverbs 1:1-4 (KJV)
With the premise of increased wisdom and understanding, how could I go wrong? So for a while, at least, I read one chapter from the book of Proverbs every day. But like everything else, it became rather hit or miss, although I read it enough to know that I had a long way to go in my Christian life.
When you look at our modern method of reading scripture one can’t help but see Proverbs as the perfect writings to meet the demand. I mean most of what the book contains are bite-sized statements that resemble the format of a fortune-cookie riddle that can easily be applied as principles for one’s daily living. The set-up here is absolutely perfect for the natural mind of man to run his course as he seeks to apply law to become wise like God.
I’m sure that right at this point, our listeners are going to have some varied reactions to what you just proposed. Some will gladly consider it, while others have already concluded that we’re just heretics who slice and dice Scripture to fit our own beliefs (after all, didn’t we just throw the whole book of Proverbs out?) — and then there are still others who may be finding their world turned upside down as they struggle with the possibility, or probability, that they’ve been basing much of their own Christian life upon law-based principles rather than upon Christ himself.
It all seems so obvious to me now. I mean for years I had never really connected the dots, even after I came to understand that the Proverbs were considered a central part of the Law. I know now that seeking out the Proverbs for instruction on “how to live”-is really just seeking out the bondage of the Law. Yes, quite literally.
Viewing Proverbs as a guide or as a set of instructions on how to live the Christian life describes my perception to a “T”. For that’s exactly how I had been instructed to regard the book of Proverbs. I want to include that I had instructed others in the very same way. For those who assume we’re suggesting that the Proverbs are somehow bad or wrong or maybe that they’re not a legitimate part of the Bible, I want you to keep in mind that as part of the Law, it’s not that there’s anything wrong with them. No! Rather, the Proverbs cannot acheive their goals for the same reason the Law couldn’t … and that’s because they are weak through the flesh!
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, Romans 8:3 (NASB)
How else do we suppose that so many of those who have set themselves to follow the principles found in Proverbs have fallen so far short? Haven’t we yet figured out that the ones who make the most noise about keeping their principles are the same ones who make the biggest thud when they hit the ground? I’m not suggesting that you shouldn’t read the Proverbs, just that you don’t let them become your how-to guide. Sure, there is much wisdom to be found in those pages, but the fleshly mind turns that wisdom into a substitute for the life of Christ that is already within you.
Jim can I share a personal story here? Many years ago when I was a young man, I had a time in my life where I found myself in the midst of some deep personal insecurities regarding Christian living and “godly” decision-making. At the time I had a very influential friend give me something akin to a “word from the Lord” that came directly from the Proverbs. I still remember that moment and I have always had the Scripture in the back of my mind. The way he meant it at the time was something of a spiritual principle that “spoke” to my situation in life.
Hey, I understand the insecurities found in those attempts to make godly decisions, and there are different viewpoints on how you can know whether you’ve heard the voice of God before making those decisions that seem to warrant an intensive examination.
There have been a few times in my life where a well-placed Bible verse impacted me in a similar way to what you’ve described here. I also remember having been broadsided a few times by well-meaning brothers who seemed to think God told them what he wanted me to do or not to do. Whether or not I took heed to the supposed word they had been given, I often found myself struggling with the thought that I might be missing what God may have wanted for me — and I can tell you that I was often left with more insecurity and indecision.
Anyhow, the reference my friend was using turned out to be from Proverbs 10:24. Let me read that here for you so you can get a sense of the story:
“What the wicked fears will come upon him, But the desire of the righteous will be granted.”
I am, for I would often parallel that verse with another from the Psalms; Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. Psalms 37:4 (KJV). Of course, the verse in Psalms doesn’t reflect the first half of the Proverbs quote “What the wicked fears will come upon him”, and something tells me that your story has more to do with that part. LOL!
Now the way I was hearing this caption was something like this: “Whatever personal or even shared fears I have inside my heart- God Himself would be forced to bring it into my life as reality if I wasn’t going to face them one by one.” In the world they call this “desensitization therapy”. You know, it’s when someone has a fear and the only way to get rid of it is by facing it head on. Basically freak yourself out until you just get used to it! Lol
I mean, really, I don’t need a Scriptural premise to understand how desensititzation therapy works. All I have to do is to get on the Order Picker where I work and take it up as far as it can go — and the overhead protective frame of the machine will hit the metal roof trusses in the lower back half of the store, and hit it with a jolt. It shakes me every time. But you know what? After a few trips up and down again, the effect lessens until it’s almost gone … and those who come along and see me at that point assume I must have no fear of heights. You think this might have something to do with how we view those mature Christians who seem to have no fear whatsoever? Maybe they just get themselves desensitized before they put us on all those how-to principles, you think?
Now this idea of going to the Proverbs to learn how God wanted me to live was pretty confusing for me, I will have to admit. For on the one hand, I wanted to be a good Christian and do what everybody said was good to do. On the other hand, I could not get past the unclear language, the constant accusation of evil and wickedness, nor the fact that it was never mentioned in the New Testament as a way to live?
Somehow in those early days, the apostles would examine the Scriptures — the Old Testament Scriptures, mind you — and come out of their study and preach Christ; we seem to have learned how to examine the Scriptures — both the OT and the NT — only to speak of anything other than Christ. How many of us would consider it a stretch to read a book like Proverbs and end up preaching Christ because of it? No, I think most of us either use Proverbs as a How-To guide or we avoid it altogether. What if we were to examine it, not with the mind of one looking for good advice, but with the renewed mind of Christ?
Jim let’s face it, the temptation for the flesh is to apply principles in view of the utter lack of understanding of anything real. Notice I said “understanding”, I mean it is a fact that we who are placed into Christ DO indeed have the reality but are persuaded to not walk in that reality from those who walk after the voice of the outward man.
Yes, and for the outward man, the book of Proverbs represents a gold mine of principles needing to be applied. After all, how could someone who walks according to outward principles persuade you to walk in the reality of Christ — even if he tells you that it must be done from the heart? In other words, how can someone encourage you in something he himself does not know that he does not know?
Look, Adam and I use the word principles a lot, and it’s mostly in a negative sense. It’s not that the word can’t be used otherwise, but we want you to understand why we make such a sharp point of contrast by placing the concept of principles against the reality we have in Christ. You see, those who do not have the love of God in their hearts may be able to tell you to love, oh yeah, and with God’s love, they might say — that is, they can speak the words … even with passion — but their directive has nothing to do with the love of God.
Now, we might say that it makes no difference because, after all, we do know God’s love — and I can agree to a point. But if it truly makes no difference, then why are we repeatedly finding ourselves caught back up into that same old religious, fleshly, legalistic mindset? Why do we seem to so often need a refresher course in the grace of God? I’m telling you right now that it’s not because God designed grace to be so elusive and hard to hang onto. We keep getting entangled so as to lose focus because we keep trying to reconcile the old mind with the new. And that’s not going to happen! What I’m saying is that we so desperately want to find our place in this world (which may be our old religious setting) that we turn a blind eye to the premise upon which those true statements are made.
There is a push from the natural mind of man to be absolutely ACCURATE [fleshy accuracy] about EVERYTHING we encounter in this world. It is framed as the very antidote of protection for all of the things we fear. So we are then compelled to pursue knowledge and more flesh focused wisdom in order to quench the burning fires of fear that lives in us. The effort and strain we endure is unbearable and some of us are able to carry its burden for many years until we finally succumb to the weight of its inability to empower in any way.
Paul wrote about this whole unbearable setup in his letter to the Galatian believers, he said: “But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. Galatians 2:17-18 (NASB)
I suspect that many of us might get thrown off by how Paul referred to rebuilding what he destroyed … which was the premise that he could justify himself by the works of the Law (as he stated in verse 16). I used to wonder why it sounded as if he was claiming that he had somehow destroyed the Law. But I’ve come to realize that it’s only the legal mind that thinks up such ridiculous notions. No, Paul would have been referring to the destruction of that old perception. It’s the same thing he referred to by the putting off or putting to death of the old man. Jesus Christ put him to death on the cross, we put him to death in our minds … our perceptions. In other words, we count it as true. We rebuild the thing we destroyed when we bring that flesh-focused wisdom to bear upon our justification in Christ. I think we need to see Paul’s reference to “but if, while seeking to be justified in Christ” as an extension of our former attempts to justify ourselves by the works of the Law. For that is what he was telling the Galatian believers they were being persuaded to do by the lawmen who were trying to help them as they followed after Christ.
Maybe you don’t think you’re rebuilding what you once destroyed, but I’m telling you that as long as whatever it is you are doing causes you to conclude that you are a sinner, then rebuilding what you once destroyed is exactly what you’re doing.
Would I encourage you to walk on a path that I have no comprehension of? Would I actually suggest that you walk on a path that I don’t really believe is even there? Of course not. But if I did suggest such a thing, you might ought to ask what path it is that I’m really referring to. You might ought to ask yourself what you’re really buying into when you take my blind advice. Consider Paul’s words to Timothy:
But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 2 Timothy 3:1-5 (NASB)
I used to wonder what kind of a society Paul could have possibly referred to. I mean, come on, why would anybody have to point out something so obvious to those who have been united to Christ … unless perhaps, things don’t look as obvious when you’re in the midst of them. My friends, we have come to accept so much religious propaganda that we’ve accepted such men as having been put in spiritual authority over us. And do you know what fools us? It’s the form of godliness they hold to and preach to us! Never mind the fact that they have denied the true power of godliness, we’ll still let them dictate how we’re supposed to live.
An example of how the natural mind might try to create godliness through applying the principals in the scriptures is found right smack dab in the middle of the example we already used in Proverbs. Let’s read Proverbs 10:24 one more time: “What the wicked fears will come upon him, But the desire of the righteous will be granted.”
And, for you, this verse meant that God was going to rid you of fear through some kind of desensitization process? In other words, he was going make you face all the fears you tried to hide from?
After reading this aloud to yourself as a potential requirement of action to rid yourself of fear you might have a few valid objections to what it is written and might start considering a rebuttal. Ahh but, it is at that time when someone might come along and add in another random quote such as “do not worry about those who kill the body but, cannot kill the soul”.-Why this passage you ask? Well the one offering it might be thinking that this “solves” the dilemma for just about ANTYHING we are fearing! I mean after all if we are to “obey” the scriptures then not fearing the ultimate of all ultimate’s SHOULD be the solution right? Just “apply” it and viola! You have the solution, problem is solved. But, what if that was NOT at all what the Spirit Himself had in mind?
Yeah, I just love it when some spiritual leader tells me that I’m supposed to obey the particular Scripture or Scriptures he claims to have a handle on. It is just a form of godliness that’s being pulled over on us, isn’t it? I mean, in order to obey the Scriptures as he puts them forth, I have to buy into his basic premise of life, which is nothing other than a law-based, natural-minded wisdom. If I read Proverbs according to natural wisdom, then I will have to automatically adjust my perception to accept the basic premise that I have not really been made righteous in Christ. That way, I’m able to approach the Proverbs in the same way one under the Law would have: as principles. And let’s face it, if the Proverbs could have led us to true wisdom, would we have needed Christ to become wisdom to us?
Comments
Re: The Proverbs Submission
Jim I thoroughly enjoyed this audio.
You did a fine job of editing for sure![I particularly noticed it in a specific spot or two]
Thanks my brother,
Adam
Re: The Proverbs Submission
Re: The Proverbs Submission
There are many things in the audio messages that I agree with, for they shed the light of the simplicity I never saw before. But there are also few that I am in disagreement with or at least unsure about. For when you speak of the deceptions we seem to fall prey to I almost always end up binding my mind to the attempt of not falling for such, which mindset is itself deceiving. On the other hand, I guess everything can be understood through the law and everything can be understood through Christ, each understanding resulting in and reaffirming its own framework of mind. So that it may in fact just be me perceiving things erroneously.
I wanted to point out however that if the life of Christ is what defines us, and that life is always creating conflicts and doubts in us in regards to the deceptions of the [fleshly, conceptual] mind, then are we justified in concluding that we ourselves can be deceived? For it only appears that way if we define ourselves by our perceptions which, at best, only control our behavior. But if the life of Christ is all that we are, then how can we be deceived? how can we not believe? For our doubts are the expression of faith, not the absence of such. So why then make reference to those deceptions as if we are able to fall prey to them, when in fact we aren't endowed with that ability? Yes, I would like for my behavior to proceed from the sincerity of my being, but that never once happened when I had occupied my mind by the continual taking upon myself the self-perception according to the assumption of the possibility of being deceived. So I don't suggest ignoring the fact of the deceptions that the mind fall for, but I'd rather concern my self, not with the possibility of being deceived, but with the impossibility of Christ to be deceived. For it is not we, but the fleshly mind that is deceived. Because, if we have died to the flesh, how can we be any longer deceived by it? It is excluded by virtue of our new life. So that the assumption of being able to be deceived reflects the fears of my former man, I reason, and not the confidence of the new.
For every time I hear that my mind can be deceived all joy and all freedom ceases to be reflected in my mind, consequently in my behavior too. But when I am occupied rather by the fact that I cannot be deceived then I do rejoice and do not end up laboring to reach the place of truth. There is some delicacy in what I said here, hard to be expressed, but I know you guys understand my point. Any thoughts? Am I making sense?
Re: The Proverbs Submission
Hello my friend Georgi,
As the comments regarding deception were being made, I was pretty sure it would stir up a reaction of this nature. I’m only glad it was you who brought it up because of how well and how graciously you have expressed it. I love the fact that you jump in and share your heart and mind so openly.
Let me just express my own thoughts and experiences as they come to me as I’m considering what you’ve written. As usual, please realize that much of what I’m writing may seem or may actually not have anything to do with what you’ve mentioned, but only with where my thoughts take me. LOL!
I, for one, thoroughly understand, and relate to, all that you have said in response. I have run through these very things in my own mind, especially in years past, as I sought to make sure that I was not believing or teaching anything but grace. In the process, I could get very technical and detailed as to what I thought that meant, not only what it meant to me but also to those who listened to me.
Now, having come from an evangelical background based upon what we called the “clear gospel,” I took that same care in trying to making sure that my grace message was likewise clear. Is it by grace or is it by law, by faith or by works? Does Christ do it … or do I? What I have discovered through all of it is that the more I examined the details in order to nail it all down, the more it became a formula. If there was anything said or written that referred to doing anything or believing, and there are numerous Bible verses to deal with in that respect, it all had to be explained in clear terms to make sure no one could possibly think that we were able to do it. One of the phrases that grace people often cling to is to say that “I can’t do anything, Jesus has to do it for me. I can’t even believe, Jesus has to believe for me.”
I am aware that such an approach seems to help believers understand the working of God in them, yet too often all it does is to create this grace bubble that only gives an appearance of understanding grace versus law, when in fact we’re often left in the same confusion as what it means to truly live. Let’s face it, how many of us have criticized some of Paul’s statements as being legalistic? Of course, you know that I have examined them based upon the assumption that we have learned to misread the man God chose to express the depths of grace. In the process, I’ve come to realize that no matter how I say something meant to encourage us in this grace that I might just as easily be misread.
Yes, I know many people have turned faith into nothing but a system of works, but I can’t let every possible misunderstanding of word or phrase keep me from using certain words. To the natural mind everything falls under suspicion, even the most rock-solid expressions of grace known to the church. However, I am speaking to those who have the mind of Christ, for he is the wisdom of God. And it is in this vein that I have often warned believers of deception … even though I know that an argument can be made to question any need to do so. Oh yeah, I’m very aware of that. :) Consider Paul’s words to the Colossians:
For I want you to know how great a struggle I have on your behalf and for those who are at Laodicea, and for all those who have not personally seen my face, that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I say this so that no one will delude you with persuasive argument. For even though I am absent in body, nevertheless I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good discipline and the stability of your faith in Christ. Colossians 2:1-5 (NASB)
Was it an oversight on Paul’s part that had him express something that might cause us to lose our confidence and joy … or is it more likely that we have allowed a former fleshly-minded trigger to force a worst-case scenario? In saying so, did Paul question the stability of their faith, or did he bank upon its reality? You see, while I know that God is continually working all things together for our good, and that the reality of who we are in Christ does not change, it has been the constant awareness that the world around — especially the religious form of the world — would love nothing better than to pull one over on me that has kept my mind so focused upon the only truth and life: Christ. Do I have to get technical or overly detailed to steer clear of such deception? Not at all. And that is exactly the point.
For me, the very prospect that the spirit of this world always desires to delude or deceive declares my true separation from this world, and from its mind. I have been encouraged more and more to listen not with the reasoning of this world but with the Spirit of life that is within me. I hear the Spirit of Christ within me as it confirms that although everyone else may turn a dear ear, I hear him. To him who has ears to hear, let him hear the words of the Spirit. The nature of the warning regarding the deception of the natural religious mind pulls my mind out of that old playing field of confusion, for it tells me not to concern myself with those things that persuade anyone else. It does not come across to me as an attempt to confuse with its many possible technicalities as to what I could conclude through reasoning, rather it confirms the simplicity of Christ, and Christ alone.
I look forward to your response, my dear friend!
Jim
Re: The Proverbs Submission
Hi Jim! First of all, I am very very thankful for your reply, for I perceive in it that you have noticed something underlying my concerns. I am rejoicing greatly in this.
You said:
“I've come to realize that no matter how I say something meant to encourage us in this grace that I might just as easily be misread.”
Exactly. For the same reason, in order to point out the same fact, I began my response, saying: “..everything can be understood through the law and everything, [including the law,] can be understood through Christ, each understanding resulting in and reaffirming its own framework of mind, so that it may just be me perceiving erroneously..”
And Paul also noticed that no matter what he said there were those who perceived grace and reaped life, and there were those who reaped death from him, always seeking to reaffirm the dead constructs of the fleshly mind that controlled them. And in doing that they were seen for what they were. For the deadness of words fits the tendencies of the natural mind that cannot perceive beyond appearance. Simply said, that mind cannot see anything but the law in everything that it sets its attention upon. Through the many struggles I became aware of the bondage resulting from hanging on words, for such hanging comes not from the reality of the absence of death, but rather from the dead mind that seeks strife and division.
But note that it was not for the sake of technicalities that I said those things, as in 'you should not use such and such phrases'. For if I said I am in disagreement with some things that only reflects upon my conflicts, not directly with what you meant, but rather with what I perceive what you say may come to mean, because I recall my own struggles over my confusion regarding words and references. It is in the same way, I reason, that you may be in conflict, not with what I meant, but what it may appear to enforce. And so what I said may be misunderstood (though I see you didn't misunderstand me at heart) to be enforcing the law, for which reason I felt compelled to note that '..There is some delicacy in what I said..,hard to be expressed..'. And I am well sure that you know exactly what I mean by that, for you experience the same sighs and sense of insufficiency to express the reality of Christ as it comes to your understanding, so as not to end up appearing as if promoting bondage. Its not the lack of words, its rather the understanding of their utter inadequacy to mediate the reality of that which isn't dead, thus coming to know the complete dependency on God to reveal these things to whoever can hear. Things such as “I can't do anything, Jesus has to do it for me. I can't even believe, Jesus has to believe for me.” come from the same bondage I wished to point out we are not under, for these words are by obligation to the mind that perceives Christ, not as life, but as fleshly and distant. In the same sense, when I see someone identifying themselves with the weakness of the mind of death that is the deception I am rather saddened, because the life of Christ is overlooked.
As you perceived Christ in my writings, so I have never been unable to perceive Christ in your expressions. It is that same perception that compelled me to refer to him through my concerns, desiring to point out certain things, which only ended up appearing as if what I said was pushing forth technicalities and restrictions. It seems to me that we may have this tendency to wish to encompass everything in our expressions regarding our heart's ultimate concern, which is the reality of the love of the life of Christ, and yet it doesn't matter how much we encompass for it can always be misunderstood. Though we know that we nevertheless don't cease to desire for what we say to be understood as as the freedom we have come to understand. Perhaps it is in the same spirit that Paul and the others made such a great deal about not rationalizing grace, as if it was a mere concept. Does that make sense?
I see that you know that I know you, because I know myself in the life that removed any differentiation between us. So that whenever I speak to you I am not aware of any separation at all, so that I am as if speaking and thinking to myself. This is where our sincerity and the absence of fear towards each other comes from. So, the sum of all that I said is that, despite appearance, we are not at all in disagreement , quite the opposite. For in Christ we don't relate to each other on the basis of words or appearances of any sort, but in that understanding of life that underlies and incorporates everything in itself. And that only we are allowed to taste from.
*Note: I think the things Paul said are seen as imperatives because the underlying knowledge of the freedom of the inability to transgress is overlooked. It is that same freedom that I referred to in my desire to point out our separation from the fleshly mind that is in a state of utter deception. Because though we know it is, strictly speaking, unprofitable to live as if in that deception I nevertheless want to always refer to our inability by nature to be deceived so that through that freedom to relate even to the fleshly mind fearlessly we may rejoice. And so I also don't wish to sound as if I am laying out prescriptions for success when saying that I'd rather be occupied, not with the ability of my mind to be deceived, but with the impossibility to be deceived that we inherited by Christ. And in doing so, I do not seek to ignore facts, but instead to always point out to the life of Christ as the only underlying assurance through which a relation of fearlessness and consequent sincerity is always in effect.
- georgi
Re: The Proverbs Submission
Like I said, I am glad it was you who brought this up, for I know your heart and mind. I knew you would see mine in whatever I wrote back. I am blessed in having your wonderful insight to stir up the truth of Christ.
Jim
Re: The Proverbs Submission
Re: The Proverbs Submission
Thanks for your encouraging words, Louise. I am glad to know that what we share is a help to you. :)
Jim
Re: The Proverbs Submission
Re: The Proverbs Submission
Thank you Mary!
Adam
".....holding to a form of
“…..holding to a form of godliness….” Did anybody say, Washington, DC…….
Yeah, for sure. It is
Yeah, for sure. It is everywhere, isn’t it? No wonder Paul referred to the principalities and powers of this world, for it’s not restricted to any specific person or group. Religious, political, intellectual, military … and the list goes on.
Jim
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