Jim, I know that as new creatures in christ we are no longer seen on the bases of the law with it's measurements. So what my question is, what is the REAL interpretation to judging a tree by it's fruit. And when we read in the scripture about true brothers and false brothers, how is one judged a true or false brother without judging according to what we see someone doing. I know that this rings of law, and that is why I want to know the truth about what the scripture actually means when talking about false brothers. Plus, to be real honest I feel funny about judging someone by there actions. Plus there just seems to be something about this thinking that doesn't ring with the life in me. Kim

Hello Kim,
This is an excellent question, and I fully understand - and encourage - your hesitance to engage in the supposedly Scriptural practice of judging others according to their actions. I mean, if we're going to do it, then we want to do it correctly ... otherwise, we'll be doing exactly what Jesus said they were doing in the first place. I had to end up questioning why Jesus' words created a technical conundrum. That is, we need to do it, but we need to find that balanced place from which to judge without bringing judgment down upon ourselves. What a mess, eh? Why did God seem to demand such easily offended commands? After all, this isn't the only one that can slip so smoothly from right to wrong, is it? But is God really like that? And you know what? I've given up on such a God who would play the same kind of manipulative, tricky games I learned in this world.

This famous verse is found both in Matthew and Luke, though I think the Luke passage is most used. Let's take a look at the whole of Luke 6 to better capture how Luke had presented this amazing testimony. And yes, the whole thing is amazing. Luke would not have mistaken how Jesus' words devastated the whole reasoning of the religious mind to which they had been bound. Though I'm certain he was confused about what really happened until after the Spirit had been given. After all, the disciples kept asking the same kind of questions over and over the whole time they had been with him.

Now it came about that on a certain Sabbath He was passing through some grainfields; and His disciples were picking and eating the heads of grain, rubbing them in their hands. But some of the Pharisees said, "Why do you do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?" And Jesus answering them said, "Have you not even read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him, how he entered the house of God, and took and ate the consecrated bread which is not lawful for any to eat except the priests alone, and gave it to his companions?" And He was saying to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath." Luke 6:1-5

Have you ever noticed how often Matthew, Mark, Luke and John record events that happened on a Sabbath day? It's not that nothing ever took place on the other days, it's just that the religious leaders watched them like hawks on the most regulated day of their week. Is it any different today where politicians face more fire during election time, financial officers come under more criticism during economic downswings, police set more speed traps at the end of the month, etc? Technicality rises to the extreme during such times, and this is no exception. These religious men kept their eyes on Jesus and his disciples, just waiting for the chance to raise their questions. In truth, they were afraid. Their fears surfaced every time they met together to discuss the technicalities of the Law. What they asked Jesus was no different than their usual legal nit-picking legal sessions with one another. Only that with each other, they had all learned to play along by using Scriptural support for the rightness of the morality of their viewpoint. It was endless. Now, they had already recognized that Jesus did not play the game they assumed was validated by God Himself, but at the same time they could not ignore the fact that God was with Jesus. Consider how Nicodemus had approached Jesus in John 3.

Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; this man came to Him by night, and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." John 3:1-2

Consider the approach. WE KNOW... Mind you, Nicodemus did not come to him as an individual, nor did he approach him in the open. He came secretively at night as a representative of the ruling counsel of God. Interesting, don't you think? They were perplexed by this man, but they were hoping to make a connection and possibly bring him on board in some way. They wanted to keep control of all matters concerning God ... and therefore, of Israel (despite the fact that they were operating under the good graces of Rome). But they KNEW that he had come from God, even though as a group they would later condemn him. However, the response Nicodemus received was totally foreign to him.

Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not understand these things? John 3:9-10

How can these things be? This is the real ongoing question that boggles the religious mind of the flesh. Religion demands an answer it can understand according to the accepted rules. Jesus always left that mind in the same quandary. It's not that he was trying to be sneaky or devious or tricksy, it's simply that the mind of the world cannot understand the mind of the spirit of God. And that's exactly what his answer in Luke did to their attempt to judge him according to the Law. Okay, back to those verses in Luke 6.

But some of the Pharisees said, "Why do you do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?" And Jesus answering them said, "Have you not even read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him, how he entered the house of God, and took and ate the consecrated bread which is not lawful for any to eat except the priests alone, and gave it to his companions?"

Have you not read what David did...? Take a moment an imagine how they might have felt at this suggestion. Of course they had read what David did. I am sure it had been brought up over the centuries during their legal sessions. However, they would have always come up with a Scriptural dance around the disturbing fact that one of their main men had not conformed to their understanding of the rigid rules of the Sabbath. No member of the counsel would have dared suggest that David was a Sabbath breaker. And no one would have left it just hanging there ... as if it was any kind of an answer for doing something similar in their own time. That's what Jesus did. He left them to judge the patriarch David as a Sabbath breaker, if they dared ... and then he pushed past that and concluded: The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. Realize this. There are just no technical answers to the truth of God that can in any way satisfy the religious mind of man. Ironically, the technicalities only end up forcing a conclusion that supersede the logic of that mind.

And it came about on another Sabbath, that He entered the synagogue and was teaching; and there was a man there whose right hand was withered. And the scribes and the Pharisees were watching Him closely, to see if He healed on the Sabbath, in order that they might find reason to accuse Him. But He knew what they were thinking, and He said to the man with the withered hand, "Rise and come forward!" And he rose and came forward. And Jesus said to them, "I ask you, is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good, or to do harm, to save a life, or to destroy it?" And after looking around at them all, He said to him, "Stretch out your hand!" And he did so; and his hand was restored. But they themselves were filled with rage, and discussed together what they might do to Jesus. Luke 6:6-11

Once again, another Sabbath where the men of leadership lay in wait for their chance to accuse and openly judge this free agent, this loose cannon. It's insane, isn't it, how those who supposedly represent the good God would even stoop to judge someone for having done good? Notice how the question of lawfulness only makes sense in view of the situation. It is ONLY because the religious leaders were waiting for him to do what he could not help but to do. And everybody knew it. Jesus himself did not approach the man on the basis of whether it was lawful or not, instead, it was the absurdity of the mind that questioned what he was going to do. The question is always posed to the religious mind that constantly wavers between the concept of good-versus-evil. According to the Law is there a wrong day to do good? Such questions only make sense to a mind ensnared in technicalities. Keep this in mind as we continue, it remains the same all the way through to your question. ;)

And it was at this time that He went off to the mountain to pray, and He spent the whole night in prayer to God. And when day came, He called His disciples to Him; and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles: Simon, whom He also named Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James and John; and Philip and Bartholomew; and Matthew and Thomas; James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot; Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor. And He descended with them, and stood on a level place; and there was a great multitude of His disciples, and a great throng of people from all Judea and Jerusalem and the coastal region of Tyre and Sidon, who had come to hear Him, and to be healed of their diseases; and those who were troubled with unclean spirits were being cured. And all the multitude were trying to touch Him, for power was coming from Him and healing them all. And turning His gaze on His disciples, He began to say, "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you shall be satisfied. Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh. Blessed are you when men hate you, and ostracize you, and cast insults at you, and spurn your name as evil, for the sake of the Son of Man. Be glad in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for in the same way their fathers used to treat the prophets. But woe to you who are rich, for you are receiving your comfort in full. Woe to you who are well-fed now, for you shall be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep. Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for in the same way their fathers used to treat the false prophets. But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. And just as you want people to treat you, treat them in the same way. And if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, in order to receive back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. And do not judge and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. Give, and it will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, they will pour into your lap. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return. And He also spoke a parable to them: "A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into a pit? A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher. And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye." Luke 6:12-42

I am not going to try to comment on all of this, but I want to simply call your attention to how Jesus' words describe the interaction between himself and the religious mind. "...for in the same way their fathers used to treat the prophets." Both the blessings and the woes end with that statement, for both are so interconnected. With all the statements Jesus made we must not assume they understood it all. There is no doubt that what he said spoke to them ... but how so? They were hearing him describe the true life that he had been living right in front of them. This life will always be misjudged ..."for in the same way their fathers used to treat the prophets". What were they to make of what they were experiencing before their very eyes? For one thing, that technical questions of lawfulness simply cannot explain it. Doing good might just as easily bring down condemnation, some times more so than praise ... but do not let that concern you. Those who seem to be blessed by God may be the very ones who will be shown to be enemies ... but do not let that concern you. As you read through all these supposed principles of Christian living, notice how the real truth of life just do not fit within the rules and understanding of whatever are the currently held opinions. Consider how everything he said helps to highlight the insanity of the religious mind that hangs upon the reasoning that caused our ancestors to condemn those we now praise, while at the same time ignoring the fact that we are actually judging the same way our fathers judged. Instead of trying to add on a new set of principles to follow, the mind of wisdom would simply have us realize that our whole understanding had been built upon the world's game. True goodness cannot be contained, for it comes from God, and it will eventually be condemned by man.

For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit; nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart. Luke 6:43-45

So here we are, but we've actually been here the whole time. It's all of the same piece. First notice how simply cut and dried what he said is. "There is no good tree which produces bad fruit; nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit." This is a rigid truth, it does not bend, nor does it conform to our flexible, changing judgments. Do we run to the Scriptures to discover this rigidity? Only if we want to come up with the same desperate answers found by the religious men of Jesus' day, the same men who only judged him a sinner! The judgments of the flesh simply cannot touch nor understand the distinction between the two trees. The tree of the flesh can only produce more of the same.

We can see it, and in seeing it we can simply judge it for what it is. However, when we start examining, as to assign sin and fault, we are merely trying to judge by the understanding found in the world that judges according to its own desires. Who is the good man? Is it not Christ? And in Christ, we are. To play the game is to fall back into the old confusion that looks for condemnation or praise based upon a system of a good and evil that ironically praises evil and condemns good under the premise that it is doing the opposite. I love this whole passage because it cuts right on through the illusion. For it is only by ignoring the simplicity that only the good tree produces good fruit (and nothing but) that brings confusion. It is only by ignoring this reality do we imagine questions of lawfulness as to the rightness of flesh or the wrongness of God's spirit.

And why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? Everyone who comes to Me, and hears My words, and acts upon them, I will show you whom he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation upon the rock; and when a flood rose, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. But the one who has heard, and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house upon the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great. Luke 6:46-49

Notice this last piece and consider how often we've considered how houses built on the sand might actually stand and houses built on the rock might actually crash and fall. No, no, no, it's as unchangeable as he said it was! :)

I hope this helps some. Please write back with any thoughts or questions that might be stimulated. :)

Love, Jim

Sorry for the late reply. So this is what seems to come to mind. The truth of Christ being in us, only produces good fruit. Not because our actions define whether we are a good tree or a bad tree. But because a good tree only bears good fruit. In other words Christ is our good tree. So naturally Christ only bears good fruit.... And the Bad Tree is symbolic of the old. In that the old adamic nature can only produce from that nature. So it makes sense that the life of Christ will be shown in someone and the adamic nature will be shown in someone else. But are we the ones to judge?? This is what makes me feel uneasy.....
And thanks a bunch for helping me out on this!! Kim

Hello Kim,

The kind of judgment that so many believe to be taught by Jesus is what we were rescued from. Of course you're going to feel uneasy at any suggestion that we are now supposed to judge according to that which is outward. Such judgment is the bondage of the natural mind. We who are given the Spirit simply know that all good things come from God, even when it might be determined against us by those who judge according to the flesh. We know what comes from where and it is to this life that we encourage one another of and in and to. As Paul wrote,

Therefore from now on we recognize no man according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ, and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were entreating through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:16-21

This is all part of true freedom! We recognize that if any is in Christ he is a new creature, and even toward those who do not believe we declare that God holds nothing against them. No, my dear lady, you are not under any demand to participate in the judgment of the flesh according to the world, no matter how the religious mind uses Jesus' words. :)

Love, Jim

Thanks for taking the time to share with me. I also want to say that I was deeply encouraged by the article on predestination and election. Kim

It is my joy to share life with you. :) I'm glad that article was encouraging to you. Thanks for telling me.

Love, Jim

It is funny how we have to make everything esoteric.
You will know them by their fruit. Period.
If my neighbor is drinking all the time and screwing his secretary there is a good chance that that kind of 'fruit' is from a faulty tree. If he is being a fairly decent guy then i can judge by that vague 'fruit' that he may perhaps be closer to LIFE...the more i know of him the more will the fruit appear in high definition.
If someone is espousing erroneous theology (most theology is) then that is fruit i can use to gauge his mental horizon.
It's relative but it's useful. fruit can be taken on many levels, each of which is dependant on my knowing my own. Posted: Oct-27-08 at 11:19am by richard

Hello Richard,

Thanks. You actually made my point.

"It is funny how we have to make everything esoteric."

Esoteric
1 a: designed for or understood by the specially initiated alone.
b: requiring or exhibiting knowledge that is restricted to a small group;
broadly: difficult to understand

I'm guessing you're referring to ME (and others like me) when you write WE, and probably not yourself. After all, you are gauging my mental horizon by the fruit of my erroneous theology, yes? I was thinking how you've also included Jesus and Paul, since they would also have to be considered esoteric.

And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. "For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. "Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Matthew 13:10-13

but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM." For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:9-16 NASB

"You will know them by their fruit. Period. ... It's relative but it's useful."

You start out so bold, definite, and uncompromising in the first only to admit (after your glaring examples) that it's relative. You apparently value the idea that Jesus has given you the authority to judge your neighbor upon a definitely relative basis. However, having determined that your neighbor's fruit has a relatively good chance of coming from a faulty tree you have only announced that your judgment of him has been and will remain according to the flesh. Even when you view your neighbor to be a fairly decent guy, upon what basis do you do so? And in determining that he may be closer to life you have only established a contradiction to the clear cut distinction between life and death brought about in Christ. As you've stated, you will continue to monitor him and his fruit until you come to a high-def determination. I'm sure you don't want to do this flipantly. Are you unaware that Jesus was judged by a fairly decent group of guys?

"fruit can be taken on many levels, each of which is dependant on my knowing my own."

But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself. For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God. 1 Corinthians 4:3-5

Jim

LMAO...of course an ego like yours would assume i meant you. No. i was referring to all of us, myself included. I tend to make everything esoteric. I see you have liberally transferred my statement about esoteric to mean the entire new testament....LOL...and you claim to be in the spirit? This is fruit.
I am referring only to the passage about 'fruit'. The parables of Jesus are indeed packed with hidden power. This is NOT a parable. It is a desperate move on your part to take my words and infer the entire scripture. Not a mark of the Spirit. more fruit. My 'bold' statement is no less so because i use the word 'relative'...what is relative is not the using of 'fruit' as a gauge, it's my ability to use that fruit.
I am relative. The test of fruit is not. You are muddling my words to bolster your god (self) ....which is in fact unhealthy 'fruit'. I'm not sure what the double talking is about where you say i am missing that fact that Jesus was judged by 'good' guys. If you will read the same scriptures you will find the words of Jesus himself saying to judge him by his fruit to the very same 'good' guys. No. they were guys in control of a faulty religious idea that had everything to lose, like yourself, and did not want the Real Truth around. The good ones did in fact judge him by His fruit and followed Him, or like Nicodemis, visited him discretely. Sorry to burst your religion (claiming to be no religion) but EVERYTHING is known by it's fruit and this website and it's errors are not excluded from this truth. Of course I highly doubt you'll allow such a candid appraisal of your work make it to the web page but at least you know I know. Perhaps some spiritual duck tape is in order? Richard

Richard,

With everything I've posted on the web site over the years why would you suppose I'd be afraid to post your assessment? Judge away, my friend. :)

Jim

"There are just no technical answers to the truth of God that can in any way satisfy the religious mind of man. Ironically, the technicalities only end up forcing a conclusion that supersede the logic of that mind." I just love it! The harder we try to understand God, the more we put Him in a box. All we can do is: be filled with the Holy Spirit, and let God have His way with us. Alida

Good day, Jim and friends,
I'm glad you posted my response. a good sign. after all, that's what we're talking about here.
1John 3:7-3:24 and Gal 5:13-5:25 Are packed with passages about what 'fruit' to look for in ourselves and others. Anything less than manifested 'fruit' is spiritual romantic dreams. I think the book of James is similar in telling us that there must be proof in the pudding. Thanks, Richard

Thanks, Richard

My dear fruit-inspecting friend,

I can only hope that you soon weary of all your examinations and Biblical justifications.

Jim

You're right. To inspect is to live in the world of 'other' and multiplicity.
Abiding is building my house on top of the Hill....His hill. Bravo. Peace B with you. Richard

Apologies are in order for my having killed the chicken to get some eggs. I was in a fleshy mindset in my previous posts and by His grace see the error. His radical Love is always showing me what a baffoon i am. (Posted: Oct-30-08) Peace and love, richard

Richard,

Fear not, the chicken is still clucking! :) Thanks for your follow up.

Jim